Dear all,
I have not grown enough to stand up against the words of one as
saintly as Mar Osthathios Thirumeni. I also do not pretend to have
understood all the fine points that Thirumeni is trying to convey by
just reading this one article.
( http://www.orthodoxherald.com/coverstory14.asp )
If God gives me an opportunity, I would love to engage Thirumeni in a
conversation on this, so that I could gain more insight. As of now however, in
the light of the review by Mr. V.L. Eapen (Eapen uncle)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13742 and with the little
understanding I have, I must say I am not able to agree with the philosophy of
'An Atraita God'.
What I would like to present here though is a slightly (yet
significantly) different viewpoint I saw in the writings of Paulose
Mar Gregorios Thirumeni. It is my understanding that PMG DID NOT see
all religions as being different ways to the same God. Yet PMG saw
common elements in the teachings of the various religions. This is
what motivated him to learn and try to understand the other faiths.
While standing firmly grounded on his own faith, this father tried
to listen to and hold dialogues with the other faiths.(ditto other
denominations)
Quoting from 'Dialogue with World Religions' - Dr. Paulos Mar
Gregorios
Source:http://www.paulosmargregorios.info/English%20Articles/dialogue.htm
"Dialogue and evangelisation are both tasks of the Church. Dialogue
is not specifically mentioned in the New Testament. But it too is a
charisma of the Holy Spirit for our time. The evangelist does the
work of evangelisation in the name of a Christ as a member of the
Body of Christ. The Christian engaging in dialogue with people of
other religions also does so in the name of Christ and as a member
of the Body of Christ."
Also
"It is true that many of our friends in the other religions already
suspect dialogue to be another devious technique of evangelisation.
Dialogue cannot be an alternative for mission or evangelism."
--------------------
I think this is a fine line both Osthathios Thirumeni and Paulose
Mar Gregorios Thirumeni are treading. Yet, a first read of the
article of 'An Atraita God', tells me that both the fathers stand on
different sides of the fine line. There is a significant difference
in the teaching of Paulose Mar Gregorios Thirumeni, in that, PMG had
specific motivations for dialogue with other religions, yet he was
clear in his understanding that Christ is the only way of salvation
for mankind.
Even though we note the difference in the teachings, it is immensely
satisfying to read the view points of two towering theologians of
the East of our times. As Thomas P pointed out
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13750 , I think Osthathios
Thirumeni's attempt might be to explain the mysteries of Christ in
the Indian philosophical context, and perhaps may be influenced by
the fractured view of evangelisation by the Western Missionaries in
India today. It is perhaps Osthathios Thirumeni's reaction to the
covert proselytization practised by many so called missionaries in
India today.
Also with regards to this point, I would like to mention that we as an Indian
Church have a great mission for ourselves in India, which we have
been shying away from, like it or not. We have to rise above
ourselves and our petty struggles and fights today and witness the
Lord by our lives. Evangelisation is a duty which we as a Church have not been
very successful at, as our history shows us. There has been occasional
individual devotions and brilliant witnesses of the faith, yet this is an area
we need to work on as a Church. In the same breath, I would like to say that I
believe our approach to mission and evangelisation must be significantly
different from what we see in the Western missionaries today. I do not know yet
what all we must do, yet looking at several 'Christian missionaries' at work in
India today, I think I am clear on what all we must not do:'Do not imitate
them.' Especially in our generation where faith seems to be fast eroding away
within the Church (note by contrast the faith of our women folk [ammachis] for
eg, just a generation ago without relying on any gimmicks [Potta,Benny Hinn
effect] that we see today), we need an organised attempt to revive the faith
within the church and spread the faith outside the church. The Sneha Sandesham
group under Osthathios Thirumeni was a good effort I thought, perhaps it can
provide a good starting point, it could be
extended,expanded and encouraged more.
As PMG told us:
"Dialogue and evangelisation are both tasks of the Church."
Also:
"Evangelisation is a charisma -- a gift of the spirit (Eph. 4:1). No
charisma except love is common to all members of the body of Christ
(1 Cor. 12:27-30, 1 Cor. 12:19). Evangelism is the task of those who
are endowed with that particular charisma. It should not be engaged
in by people without the gift. Indiscriminate preaching by self-
proclaimed evangelists has proved itself to be counter- productive
in our time."
I pray that these words from Paulose Mar Gregorios Thirumeni be a
beacon of light for us as we as a Church try to engage in
evangelisation in a meaningful way in our beloved country India and
also in the different parts of the world we are placed. A proper understanding
of evangelisation is important, and also the understanding that while all are
not endowed with the gift, we as a Church has a definite responsibility in this
area. The Church must identify individuals blessed with the calling for
evangelisation, then train them in the proper way, also guide them to be
sensitive to the rich spirituality of the land of India while proclaiming
fearlessly and boldly the
good news about Christ, by words and deeds. A distorted view of spiritual India
as a land of idols, snake charmers,fanatics and evil spirits that the West has
engrained in many of us must be rooted out and a realistic and whole view of the
land of Rishis and the Vedas, where great monarchs like King Ashoka and Emperor
Akbar reigned, and from where Mahavira and Gautama Buddha emerged, and deriving
strength from which Mahatma Gandhi exhibited the principles of Christ in such a
manner that put Christians to shame, must be understood. While not deviating
even a bit from our faith and our conviction in the redeeming sacrifice of the
Lord, we must be mindful and sensitive of the rich Indian spirituality. We need
lots of prayers and faith to achieve this. Many have gone ahead of us and have
failed, thus inciting communal strife and distrust, thus bringing ill will and
disrepute to the name of Christ. As an Indian Church, we have a great role to
play in this area. We, more than anyone else perhaps in the whole Christendom,
having the history of about 2000 years of life within the land, have to
understand the ethos of India,and take up the mantle of presenting Christ and
the gospel in the right manner to India. Perhaps it is now time to bear fruit
for our existence in this land as Christians for such a long time. Perhaps
Osthathios Thirumeni is engaged in an attempt to this end, even though we do not
understand it clearly as yet. Let us strengthen Thirumeni's hands, not pull them
down. Hope Osthathios Thirumeni brings this up for discussion and consultation
in the Holy Synod and all the fathers together pray with tears for guidance and
wisdom from the Holy Spirit. May the prayers of all our fathers including
Paulose Mar Gregorios be our strength.
Regards,
Mathew Samuel,
Albany, NY
--------
Ref: 'Dialogue with World Religions' - Dr. Paulos Mar Gregorios
Source:http://www.paulosmargregorios.info/English%20Articles/dialogue.htm
http://www.paulosmargregorios.info
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13791
I have not grown enough to stand up against the words of one as
saintly as Mar Osthathios Thirumeni. I also do not pretend to have
understood all the fine points that Thirumeni is trying to convey by
just reading this one article.
( http://www.orthodoxherald.com/coverstory14.asp )
If God gives me an opportunity, I would love to engage Thirumeni in a
conversation on this, so that I could gain more insight. As of now however, in
the light of the review by Mr. V.L. Eapen (Eapen uncle)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13742 and with the little
understanding I have, I must say I am not able to agree with the philosophy of
'An Atraita God'.
What I would like to present here though is a slightly (yet
significantly) different viewpoint I saw in the writings of Paulose
Mar Gregorios Thirumeni. It is my understanding that PMG DID NOT see
all religions as being different ways to the same God. Yet PMG saw
common elements in the teachings of the various religions. This is
what motivated him to learn and try to understand the other faiths.
While standing firmly grounded on his own faith, this father tried
to listen to and hold dialogues with the other faiths.(ditto other
denominations)
Quoting from 'Dialogue with World Religions' - Dr. Paulos Mar
Gregorios
Source:http://www.paulosmargregorios.info/English%20Articles/dialogue.htm
"Dialogue and evangelisation are both tasks of the Church. Dialogue
is not specifically mentioned in the New Testament. But it too is a
charisma of the Holy Spirit for our time. The evangelist does the
work of evangelisation in the name of a Christ as a member of the
Body of Christ. The Christian engaging in dialogue with people of
other religions also does so in the name of Christ and as a member
of the Body of Christ."
Also
"It is true that many of our friends in the other religions already
suspect dialogue to be another devious technique of evangelisation.
Dialogue cannot be an alternative for mission or evangelism."
--------------------
I think this is a fine line both Osthathios Thirumeni and Paulose
Mar Gregorios Thirumeni are treading. Yet, a first read of the
article of 'An Atraita God', tells me that both the fathers stand on
different sides of the fine line. There is a significant difference
in the teaching of Paulose Mar Gregorios Thirumeni, in that, PMG had
specific motivations for dialogue with other religions, yet he was
clear in his understanding that Christ is the only way of salvation
for mankind.
Even though we note the difference in the teachings, it is immensely
satisfying to read the view points of two towering theologians of
the East of our times. As Thomas P pointed out
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13750 , I think Osthathios
Thirumeni's attempt might be to explain the mysteries of Christ in
the Indian philosophical context, and perhaps may be influenced by
the fractured view of evangelisation by the Western Missionaries in
India today. It is perhaps Osthathios Thirumeni's reaction to the
covert proselytization practised by many so called missionaries in
India today.
Also with regards to this point, I would like to mention that we as an Indian
Church have a great mission for ourselves in India, which we have
been shying away from, like it or not. We have to rise above
ourselves and our petty struggles and fights today and witness the
Lord by our lives. Evangelisation is a duty which we as a Church have not been
very successful at, as our history shows us. There has been occasional
individual devotions and brilliant witnesses of the faith, yet this is an area
we need to work on as a Church. In the same breath, I would like to say that I
believe our approach to mission and evangelisation must be significantly
different from what we see in the Western missionaries today. I do not know yet
what all we must do, yet looking at several 'Christian missionaries' at work in
India today, I think I am clear on what all we must not do:'Do not imitate
them.' Especially in our generation where faith seems to be fast eroding away
within the Church (note by contrast the faith of our women folk [ammachis] for
eg, just a generation ago without relying on any gimmicks [Potta,Benny Hinn
effect] that we see today), we need an organised attempt to revive the faith
within the church and spread the faith outside the church. The Sneha Sandesham
group under Osthathios Thirumeni was a good effort I thought, perhaps it can
provide a good starting point, it could be
extended,expanded and encouraged more.
As PMG told us:
"Dialogue and evangelisation are both tasks of the Church."
Also:
"Evangelisation is a charisma -- a gift of the spirit (Eph. 4:1). No
charisma except love is common to all members of the body of Christ
(1 Cor. 12:27-30, 1 Cor. 12:19). Evangelism is the task of those who
are endowed with that particular charisma. It should not be engaged
in by people without the gift. Indiscriminate preaching by self-
proclaimed evangelists has proved itself to be counter- productive
in our time."
I pray that these words from Paulose Mar Gregorios Thirumeni be a
beacon of light for us as we as a Church try to engage in
evangelisation in a meaningful way in our beloved country India and
also in the different parts of the world we are placed. A proper understanding
of evangelisation is important, and also the understanding that while all are
not endowed with the gift, we as a Church has a definite responsibility in this
area. The Church must identify individuals blessed with the calling for
evangelisation, then train them in the proper way, also guide them to be
sensitive to the rich spirituality of the land of India while proclaiming
fearlessly and boldly the
good news about Christ, by words and deeds. A distorted view of spiritual India
as a land of idols, snake charmers,fanatics and evil spirits that the West has
engrained in many of us must be rooted out and a realistic and whole view of the
land of Rishis and the Vedas, where great monarchs like King Ashoka and Emperor
Akbar reigned, and from where Mahavira and Gautama Buddha emerged, and deriving
strength from which Mahatma Gandhi exhibited the principles of Christ in such a
manner that put Christians to shame, must be understood. While not deviating
even a bit from our faith and our conviction in the redeeming sacrifice of the
Lord, we must be mindful and sensitive of the rich Indian spirituality. We need
lots of prayers and faith to achieve this. Many have gone ahead of us and have
failed, thus inciting communal strife and distrust, thus bringing ill will and
disrepute to the name of Christ. As an Indian Church, we have a great role to
play in this area. We, more than anyone else perhaps in the whole Christendom,
having the history of about 2000 years of life within the land, have to
understand the ethos of India,and take up the mantle of presenting Christ and
the gospel in the right manner to India. Perhaps it is now time to bear fruit
for our existence in this land as Christians for such a long time. Perhaps
Osthathios Thirumeni is engaged in an attempt to this end, even though we do not
understand it clearly as yet. Let us strengthen Thirumeni's hands, not pull them
down. Hope Osthathios Thirumeni brings this up for discussion and consultation
in the Holy Synod and all the fathers together pray with tears for guidance and
wisdom from the Holy Spirit. May the prayers of all our fathers including
Paulose Mar Gregorios be our strength.
Regards,
Mathew Samuel,
Albany, NY
--------
Ref: 'Dialogue with World Religions' - Dr. Paulos Mar Gregorios
Source:http://www.paulosmargregorios.info/English%20Articles/dialogue.htm
http://www.paulosmargregorios.info
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/13791
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