Church - a Man Made Idea?
Dear all,
Too many times these days we hear things like -
'Only Christ is important'
'All Churches are man-made - borne out of selfish interests'
'All denominations must focus on just Christ, all other things are
superfecial'
'Our Church is too rigid, we must accept all other denominations and
be more liberal'
'All Churches are the same, it does not matter which one we follow'
Even further..
'All religions are the same, it does not matter which we follow'
'God is an idea, only good works are important'.
I am not blind to some of the obvious shortcomings we see around in
the Church today, but frankly, the way these thoughts are leading
into, it stirs some strong passions within me, it strikes at some
fundamental aspects of my faith, and I seek answers. I am no
theologian, but from my little understanding, I developed this
following Q-A series, mostly for my clarifications - and presenting
them here for corrections and refinement.
A fundamental issue to deal with here first is - Is the Church
something established by the Lord, or is it a man made idea?
*********************************************************
Question:
-----------------
Was the Church established by God?
Premise:
--------
If the Church has been established by God, we need to seek out the
one true Church and try to be a part of it.
If the Church has not been established by God, then we need not seek
out any one Church to worship. Praying individually at home should
then be encouraged instead of Church worship, and all groups of faithful
gathering together in the name of Christ must be seen as a place of indwelling
of the Holy Spirit.
Scriptures:
----------
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the
gates of hell will not prevail against it"
(St.Matthew. 16:18).
My understanding:
----------------
Christ did establish the Church on the rock of Faith. The Church was
established on the Earth not in an allegorical sense, but in a
literal form. There was the physical presence of the First Church in
the form of the Apostles, presbyters and believers, and today there
is the physical presence of the Church in the world in the form of
bishops, priests and lay believers with Christ as the head, the
founder, the cornerstone.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Premise:
--------
If the Lord did indeed give His precious blood for the Church, then
we have no Way other than the way taught by the Church. If there was
really no vision of the Church in the scheme of things of the Lord,
and if the Church is indeed a man-made idea, then it is ok to seek
out the most efficient Christian group and follow them or 'just
follow Christ' as we hear often today.
Scriptures:
----------
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to
minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
(St. Matthew 20:28)
My understanding:
----------------
'Many' here is an exclusive term - (not an all inclusive term as
popularly understood today). More clearly, 'many' refers to those
within the Church. The caveat - this does not mean all within the
Church have a free license to Heaven, it probably refers to a
selected few within the Church. So what about those outside the
Church? - The Bible itself contradicts in a sense - "who gave himself as a
ransom for ALL men" (1 Timothy 2:6). Here 'ransom' is for 'all'
(not 'many'), so we cannot judge. Yet, it is a folly to continue
sinning, and testing the patience of God. And it is improper to pass judgement
on another when we ourselves are not safe.
Scriptures:
----------
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might
die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been
healed.(1Peter 2:24)
My understanding:
---------------
The epistles were read in the 'churches' during the early days of
Christianity. St.Paul wrote his epistles to strengthen the various
newly established 'Churches' like Corinth, Galatia, Thessalonica etc.
There was no other way in the early times to learn about Christ and
participate in the life in Christ, except through the life in the
Church.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Premise:
--------
If the Church is the Bride of the Lord, if the Christ is the
bridegroom who loves the Church as His own bride, then we need to
follow the teachings of the Church and respect and listen to those in
authority in the Church. If this is not true, then there is no need
to consider the Church as Holy.
Scriptures:
-----------
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave
himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)
My understanding:
----------------
Christ loves the Church. Christ gave his life for the Church. Again I
note, St.Paul addresses the 'Church' in Ephesus, not anyone outside.
*********************************************************
Summary:
--------
If you have read till here, hope atleast some can agree with me that there was a
strong concept
of 'Church' from the early times of Christianity, that Christian
understanding is that the Lord gave His Blood as ransom for
this 'Church' and the Lord loves the Church as Himself.
The Apostles guarded and protected the teachings of the Church
fiercely and uncompromisingly (Read Galatians 1:8). Those who
disobeyed the teachings of the Church and those who did not
participate fully in the life of the Church, atleast those who spread
ill-will against the authorities of the Church, were dealt with
severely in the days of the Early Church. How strange - even a few
years after the ascension of the Lord, there was no concept of
a 'Christ only' means of living - but there was only a wholesome life
of participation in the Church.
Next: Can THE CHURCH comprise of a group of believers of diverse faith teachings
(so called different 'denominations')?
--------------------------------
Regards,
Mathew Samuel,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/17729
Too many times these days we hear things like -
'Only Christ is important'
'All Churches are man-made - borne out of selfish interests'
'All denominations must focus on just Christ, all other things are
superfecial'
'Our Church is too rigid, we must accept all other denominations and
be more liberal'
'All Churches are the same, it does not matter which one we follow'
Even further..
'All religions are the same, it does not matter which we follow'
'God is an idea, only good works are important'.
I am not blind to some of the obvious shortcomings we see around in
the Church today, but frankly, the way these thoughts are leading
into, it stirs some strong passions within me, it strikes at some
fundamental aspects of my faith, and I seek answers. I am no
theologian, but from my little understanding, I developed this
following Q-A series, mostly for my clarifications - and presenting
them here for corrections and refinement.
A fundamental issue to deal with here first is - Is the Church
something established by the Lord, or is it a man made idea?
*********************************************************
Question:
-----------------
Was the Church established by God?
Premise:
--------
If the Church has been established by God, we need to seek out the
one true Church and try to be a part of it.
If the Church has not been established by God, then we need not seek
out any one Church to worship. Praying individually at home should
then be encouraged instead of Church worship, and all groups of faithful
gathering together in the name of Christ must be seen as a place of indwelling
of the Holy Spirit.
Scriptures:
----------
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the
gates of hell will not prevail against it"
(St.Matthew. 16:18).
My understanding:
----------------
Christ did establish the Church on the rock of Faith. The Church was
established on the Earth not in an allegorical sense, but in a
literal form. There was the physical presence of the First Church in
the form of the Apostles, presbyters and believers, and today there
is the physical presence of the Church in the world in the form of
bishops, priests and lay believers with Christ as the head, the
founder, the cornerstone.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Premise:
--------
If the Lord did indeed give His precious blood for the Church, then
we have no Way other than the way taught by the Church. If there was
really no vision of the Church in the scheme of things of the Lord,
and if the Church is indeed a man-made idea, then it is ok to seek
out the most efficient Christian group and follow them or 'just
follow Christ' as we hear often today.
Scriptures:
----------
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to
minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
(St. Matthew 20:28)
My understanding:
----------------
'Many' here is an exclusive term - (not an all inclusive term as
popularly understood today). More clearly, 'many' refers to those
within the Church. The caveat - this does not mean all within the
Church have a free license to Heaven, it probably refers to a
selected few within the Church. So what about those outside the
Church? - The Bible itself contradicts in a sense - "who gave himself as a
ransom for ALL men" (1 Timothy 2:6). Here 'ransom' is for 'all'
(not 'many'), so we cannot judge. Yet, it is a folly to continue
sinning, and testing the patience of God. And it is improper to pass judgement
on another when we ourselves are not safe.
Scriptures:
----------
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might
die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been
healed.(1Peter 2:24)
My understanding:
---------------
The epistles were read in the 'churches' during the early days of
Christianity. St.Paul wrote his epistles to strengthen the various
newly established 'Churches' like Corinth, Galatia, Thessalonica etc.
There was no other way in the early times to learn about Christ and
participate in the life in Christ, except through the life in the
Church.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Premise:
--------
If the Church is the Bride of the Lord, if the Christ is the
bridegroom who loves the Church as His own bride, then we need to
follow the teachings of the Church and respect and listen to those in
authority in the Church. If this is not true, then there is no need
to consider the Church as Holy.
Scriptures:
-----------
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave
himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)
My understanding:
----------------
Christ loves the Church. Christ gave his life for the Church. Again I
note, St.Paul addresses the 'Church' in Ephesus, not anyone outside.
*********************************************************
Summary:
--------
If you have read till here, hope atleast some can agree with me that there was a
strong concept
of 'Church' from the early times of Christianity, that Christian
understanding is that the Lord gave His Blood as ransom for
this 'Church' and the Lord loves the Church as Himself.
The Apostles guarded and protected the teachings of the Church
fiercely and uncompromisingly (Read Galatians 1:8). Those who
disobeyed the teachings of the Church and those who did not
participate fully in the life of the Church, atleast those who spread
ill-will against the authorities of the Church, were dealt with
severely in the days of the Early Church. How strange - even a few
years after the ascension of the Lord, there was no concept of
a 'Christ only' means of living - but there was only a wholesome life
of participation in the Church.
Next: Can THE CHURCH comprise of a group of believers of diverse faith teachings
(so called different 'denominations')?
--------------------------------
Regards,
Mathew Samuel,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/17729
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